So, I have seen staff lock threads about past issues. My question is why? What do we gain from this? Besides, if the issue is brought up again, we either have to 1) wait for an Admin or Mod to unlock the thread or 2) Make a separate thread, which would be redundant if we could have just put it over in the original thread. I suggest that we stop doing this, for convenience sake and practicalities sake.
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I think the purpose of this originally was to create a formal stop to a coversation, and certain resolved issues would really have to be locked. Heated debates between staff, and the like could merit a temporary or even permanent lock, but aside from that, I second. (Besides, I'm not doing it!)
Send Message | Know that my bloodstained palms will only ever care for a greater plan.
Re: formal stop, why not just tell people to stop? They would listen, and it would make things a lot easier. (I get your not doing it, I'm just replying to you since you said it)
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The problem is sometimes people do not listen to reason and continue down the spiral of insanity. Therefore when reason fails, a thread locking may be deemed necessary. I don't do it that often myself really. In fact I have never done that as of yet on Falchion Valley. However, I am concerned about the recent deletion of certain forum thread portions on the mainsite wiki. Especially when it comes to the necessity of gathering evidence against offenders.
Former CI Wiki Administrator Now just CI Wiki member: | Tuum Est: It's up to you
Okay, I'm going to call bullshit on you "never locking threads", since just a little bit ago when theblahblah was removed you locked the thread with no precedent and with nobody dog piling on him. Besides, they should listen to what an Admin says. If they don't, disciplinary measures should be preformed against them, since they broke a rule in full knowledge of that rule.
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You're being excessively paranoid and irrationally afraid of what users are capable of, and you're being a hoarder with collecting 'evidence'. We're not a real court of law, we're just a group of admins watching the site. We want evidence to justify doing disciplinary to a user, and the needed thought for that is
Evidence 1
Staff: Wow this guy is doing wrong let's talk about it
Evidence 2:
Ok this means the guy is active about it let's remove him. Ban indeterminate.
Let's keep an offsite record of what happened and forget about all this. No need to use a nuke on a simple zergling after all.
You think like this:
Evidence 1
He did something bad let's send him a strongly worded PM with vague threats
E 2
He did it again let's give him an actual ultimatum this time
E 3
Shit he's replying to me like an actual ass frankly i don't give a damn at this point he's spewing insults. Let's take a break as I reply to defend myself.
E 4
Baaaan him 48 hrs
E 5
Perma
Alright now lets keep all of what he posted and replied "for posterity" even though some of it is Webspam and I'm pretty sure we're doing what he wants at this point.
You compile all these evidence like you think the more he does wrong (despite the fact that he may already have done enough to cause permanent ban) means the more we discipline him with stagnant incremental steps.
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I dunno. I guess I should stop being so emotionally invested in my duty as an admin more. Maybe that will help out more.
Former CI Wiki Administrator Now just CI Wiki member: | Tuum Est: It's up to you
So, I don't think Cad is saying that you're too emotionally invested (every admin should be emotionally invested, IMO), but that you let your emotions control you rather than using a level head. This causes you to do things without much thought of the ramifications and makes it a lot harder for the system to work. And the system does work, if you allow it to.
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Nouva, can you input on this? I would like to hear your opinion on why it happens and if it should continue to happen.
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Okay, Cad, this is what I'm talking about. You just locked Flugal's thread when the only posts not recording anything was Victor agreeing with a ban and Ed explaining why Flugal was banned. Now, I agree that Ed could have been less snarky, but literally nobody else was posting there. You just decided to lock it when you could have just told people not to post anything unless its to record something Flugal does (like pm or something like that). Now, if he ever comes back, we have to make a new thread and put stuff there, which really inconveniences people when he comes back and we have to search for past threads.
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He's not coming back. I could go to say I think he has some vestige of honor to call this off for good.
I understand that I may be a bit fatalistic with he decision, so I will downgrade my post to a soft closeof topic - no continued chatter until its necessary to bring it back (besides, I didn't lock it anyway. Just wanted to close it)
Send Message | Know that my bloodstained palms will only ever care for a greater plan.
I know his type. He will. Unless he suddenly had some serious reform over the past few months, which I doubt, he will come back. The only reason why he admitted to being Alex is because we already found out, and he was trying to guilt trip us into being softer with him next time. Obviously it was a pathetic attempt, but that is what he was trying to do.
E: This isn't really the place to talk about that, though. If you want to continue to discuss the topic, then we can talk in the actual thread dedicated to him or PMs.
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OKAY!!!!!!!!
…
I believe we should treat this as if we are in a conversation since we shouldn't wave our dick of power around with a lock button HOWEVER I do not see the need to completely get rid of this system as some conversations can become racist, insulting, and offensive, have no relevant information to archive, and serves no purpose other than being a rude thread.
Do what you must but this is why I stay silent for these locking thread stuff. Espescially why I was quiet for the torin situation because you are not getting an answer from me of what I think of him. That's not whats expected out of me and if it is then I am leaving.
Nouva edit: Okay I'm not gonna leave and you can ask for my input Live2Die, I'm sorry if I sounded rude, but we have to get the simple shit down if this site is gonna still be around in another year.
Nouva edit again, why? I don't care: Completely deleting the thread is not good either. I understand why you did it Cad and I'm not saying what you did was bad. You were acting in the best interest and we all have that. But we can't up and get rid of it because he can always get a new computer, move, and act like any other new member on the block. The internet has loopholes. And like Ed said, evidence handy is nice.
Think for yourself, question authority
We have enough evidence, although I wished I would have taken screenshots. I'm standing on my view that the intro thread was to be deleted. If he's gone for good, no need to let the thread stay there, and if he's coming back, no need to let him see that we're keeping his thread there. Flugal is tsb, he admitted that, and he was punished to the best we can muster. Either way, keeping that thread would just tarnish the site's reputation and cleanliness.
Send Message | Know that my bloodstained palms will only ever care for a greater plan.
No, it would serve as evidence should he ever come again. If you posted on the thread saying "thread locked, this was banned user sockpuppeting, don't do that" (not those exact words but still) it would show users what happens when they pull off shit like that, and it would discourage them from trying to do it. It wouldn't tarnish anything about the site, since it was shown that we dealt with him in a quick, clean fashion once he revealed who he was.
E: @Nuova, like I said, why can't we just tell them to stop instead of locking pages if they're insulting said user?
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No, it would serve as evidence should he ever come again. If you posted on the thread saying "thread locked, this was banned user sockpuppeting, don't do that" (not those exact words but still) it would show users what happens when they pull off shit like that, and it would discourage them from trying to do it. It wouldn't tarnish anything about the site, since it was shown that we dealt with him in a quick, clean fashion once he revealed who he was.
My view exactly.
Former CI Wiki Administrator Now just CI Wiki member: | Tuum Est: It's up to you
Okay guys we get it. Live2Die lay off. And I also said that what Cad did was okay. End of story. We don't turn against ourselves and I hope Cad and Ed you guys can get on chat as of time of this post so we can discuss some 'stuff'. Okay? Guys cmon its not that big of a deal and I don't want to choose sides and alienate any three of you. Please. Enough. Come to a conclusion but you all know that this childish argument does not need to be deleted nor does it need to be archived. Its here. So please find a solution to this
Think for yourself, question authority
We aren't being childish. We are having a civil discussion that I wanted you to contribute in since you were an administrator. Nobody feels alienated as of yet, and if you chose a side that wouldn't really change. And, besides, nobody said anything about archiving this or deleting this. I just saw what I considered a minor problem and asked others for their opinions, and I posted it on FV, the place where we do that. This is what we're supposed to do in these cases, I thought.
If you feel I'm being too pressing, I'll stop posting anything on the topic.
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Live2Die I'm sorry i sounded blunt. This isn't childish and I was merely using this thread as an example. Your doing the right thing. I apologize.
We all just need to come to some agreement and we have list our options for what we will do in the future. Now what are they?
Think for yourself, question authority
From what I see, our options are to:
I think it's fairly obvious which I support (first one), but I would like other staff, including other senior staff and mods, to pitch in on this.
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I also support the first option Live2Die made. However I feel that we should not be too firm about deleting some threads on the wiki. If there is some incident that requires that thread to be deleted rather than letting it stay. It would be better.
Allow me to rephrase what I meant by delete. When I say delete. I mean we should move the offending thread to the deleted section of the mainnsite forums. That will be a good idea for both sides. Firstly, you did not really delete that thread but rather moved it into another forum section, secondly, since the deleted section of the forums is hidden unless someone wants to see them.
Sorry for the ramble iof words above, I hope I made my thoughts clear.
Former CI Wiki Administrator Now just CI Wiki member: | Tuum Est: It's up to you
I feel like we should only delete threads if there are serious rules broken in there, like harassing posts, etc. Other than that, yeah, agreeing to you agreeing :P
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